French Insider Podcast Ep. 17
The Ins and Outs of International Production and Entertainment with Tim Stephen
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In this episode of French Insider, Tim Stephen, EVP of Strategy and Head of Business & Legal Affairs at Gaumont Film US, the Los Angeles-based TV production arm of French film studio Gaumont, joins host and Sheppard Mullin attorney Alex Akhavan to discuss the challenges and rewards of internal production and entertainment, including how streaming has changed the business of entertainment, the cultural and legal differences productions typically encounter outside the United States and the various reasons production companies might choose to film in other countries and territories.
Guests:
About Tim Stephen
Tim Stephen has more than 20 years of executive experience across a broad range of entertainment-industry disciplines, including business and legal affairs, television development and production and international co-financing. As EVP of Strategy and Head of Business & Legal Affairs, he oversees business and legal matters for film, television, animation and distribution for Gaumont Film US, a subsidiary of French film studio Gaumont.
Gaumont Film US produces drama and comedy programming for both the U.S. and international markets, including Hannibal, which aired on NBC from April 2013 - August 2022, as well as the Golden Globes-winning drama Narcos, currently airing on Netflix.
About Alex Akhavan
Alex Akhavan is an associate in the Entertainment, Technology and Advertising Practice Group in Sheppard Mullin’s Century City, California office, where he represents producers, studios, media companies and networks in connection with entertainment productions throughout the United States and around the world.
In addition to advising Gaumont Film US on matters of clearance and production, Alex has served as production counsel to Campanario Entertainment. He also leads the firm’s Disney Television Animation and Amazon Studios’ unscripted teams and regularly negotiates development and production agreements on behalf of Disney, Amazon and Univision.
Transcript:
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the French Insider, a Sheppard Mullin French Desk monthly podcast, dedicated to helping French investors and companies in growing their business in the United States. Each episode will feature conversations with thought leaders and experts in various industries, including technology, life sciences, fashion, energy, entertainment, and many others. Tune in to learn about the challenges faced by those investing in the US and the solutions to these challenges. And now for the inside look.
Alex Akhavan:
Hello, my name is Alex Akhavan. I am an associate in Sheppard Mullin's Century City office in their Entertainment, Technology and Advertising Practice Group. I handle a lot of entertainment transactions, and today I will be speaking with Tim Steven, Executive Vice President of Strategy and Head of Business and Legal Affairs at Gaumont Film USA. Tim oversees business and legal affairs for Gaumont's film and television projects, both in live-action and animation, and I'm really excited for this conversation. Tim, welcome to the show.
Tim, thank you for joining. Welcome to the podcast. I'd like to jump right in and get to know a little bit about, well, first of all, tell us about Gaumont, and what your role is there, and how you started, and what the company does.
Tim Stephen:
Sure. Well thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. And Gaumont US is, or Gaumont in the US, has been around for about 14 years now and it's a wholly owned subsidiary of the first film studio, or the oldest film studio in the world, Gaumont, out of France. And this US subsidiary has been producing live-action film, television, and animation, for mostly the streamers, but some broadcast for about 12 to 13 years now. I run business and legal here in the US, and oversee all the production and business for all of those areas, even the occasional documentary. But it's a very diverse company in what we produce. And I think the emphasis, frankly, is on trying to see, at this point, where the streamers are, and what they want to do, and we try and fill that niche.
Alex Akhavan:
That's great. Yeah. Well, so I know, especially for our listeners coming from France, they're going to know Gaumont very, very well, because Gaumont's also a huge exhibitor in France. I know there's production, but also a lot of the theaters I go to are Gaumont theaters. I know in the US, it's more focused on these productions. Can you name, and maybe just discuss briefly a few of the projects you've supervised, and the Gaumont USA has produced in the US?
Tim Stephen:
Sure. So our biggest project that we've done, and turned into a worldwide hit, is called Narcos. And it was one-
Alex Akhavan:
Great show.
Tim Stephen:
Fantastic. I don't know if I've ever met anybody who said they watched it and didn't enjoy it, but that's good to hear. It's was one of Netflix's earliest and biggest hits. We've done six seasons, and it's a franchise, it's a worldwide brand at this point. We also-
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, and they're all for Netflix, is that right?
Tim Stephen:
Yeah. Yep, yep. All the seasons are on Netflix. The story of Narcos, I think is fascinating, frankly. It's broken so much ground in so many different ways, and not just creatively, but from a business model as well. And frankly, also from a merchandising perspective, and a trademark perspective, I think. But we could spend a lot of time just on that, frankly.
Alex Akhavan:
Oh yeah. I could talk about Narcos for hours.
Tim Stephen:
But some of the other shows are Hannibal, which was an early show of ours, but was done for NBC. A highly regarded show that has a rapid fan base, and is frankly doing very well now in syndication, or what we still call syndication, but really now is on a free advertiser-supported streaming platforms, and also some very innovative merchandising around that show. Another early show that went for a number of years was F is for Family, and that was an adult animated show for Netflix. And there been others as well, but those are some of the, I think, the hits that people may know.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, no, that sounds so great. And yeah, it sounds like you guys are getting up to a lot. How much of the shows that are produced under Gaumont USA are actually filmed in the US? How often do you find that you are filming, despite it being the US subsidiaries production, how often are you filming outside the US?
Tim Stephen:
Most of our shows are shot outside of the US, and that's not on purpose necessarily, it's just that we found that the stories take place outside the US, and from a production value perspective, are better shot outside of the US. And there are some that are done here, but most are done outside of the US, and for cost purposes as well. Like most other studios, we tend to go to places where we can get more value, more production value for the limited dollars that we have to spend. So we end up shooting around the world.
Alex Akhavan:
That's great. I definitely want to dig into the benefits and challenges of all that shortly. But first, I wanted to go back to how the US subsidiary works with the French parent company. Is there a relationship? Are you guys doing partnerships? What is it like to run a US subsidiary of such a higher French business?
Tim Stephen:
Yeah, so I think you have what I would regard as a typical parent subsidiary relationship. So you have traditional reporting functions that go on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. And that's I think nothing surprising, or unusual, or interesting, about that. But I think the more interesting aspects are where our businesses cross over, and they have IP, or we have IP that they may find interesting for their market, or vice versa.
And so by way of example, Gaumont SA, the Paris, the French company, has a very large and deep catalog of film, and we work with them and look at those titles to try and assess which, if any, might be appropriate for spinoffs, or some derivative production. And that's something we're still working on with them. I can't really speak to which of any of those we've identified that we may be going forward with, but we talk to them quite a bit about that. And we also share best practices, both a business perspective and a legal perspective. So issues that we come across, we share with them and they do the same with us. So it's a very beneficial relationship, very close relationship.
Alex Akhavan:
That's great. And you made me think of... It's a big trend happening in the entertainment industry now, with so much content being produced, and under this new streaming model, that IP is so critical, and so many studios where there are so many books being bought, and even articles being turned into shows. So to the extent, you could work off of IP that is already controlled by you, or in this case in your parenting company, it's definitely a great potential resource for a lot of great ideas. Like you said, spinoffs.
So yeah, I imagine that it probably cuts both ways. There may be productions that you've produced in the US, that could be either distributed, but also maybe make a French version of, or a European version of in Europe. And then vice versa, there might be IP that Gaumont France controls, and you might want to brainstorm how you can make a US version, stuff like that.
So definitely, it makes sense. It's exciting. Do you ever find that you're producing similar IP concurrently? Does it ever happen where someone in the US thinks of a great idea that could be not just a US production, but a whole franchise? Do you guys ever work together, or is it more you focus on your projects, they focus on theirs, and there's collaboration and sharing, but not so much working on the same field?
Tim Stephen:
Yeah, I don't want to speak too much for the creative side of the company, but I can tell you from my perspective, I haven't really seen too much in that regard, where we're collaborating on a show or a movie together. There's certainly some of that, but you have different teams, frankly. And the French team is, I think, is focused on their buyers. We're focused on our buyers. There's a German company as well, a UK company, and now an Italian.
And so as you well know, there are different buyers for all the different platforms, then obviously all the domestic channels as well. So there's a lot to cover in each of those markets for all of those teams. But we do talk, and what I did want to go back and say, Alex, about whether we're successful or not, or at finding things to collaborate on, or base shows on IP that maybe another entity might have an interest in, I think a hundred percent of that is based on the closeness of the relationships that the company helps to create between all the different teams.
Because you can certainly imagine that if the culture really didn't promote that, that there really wouldn't be the collaboration, or you would have people working against each other. But that's just not the culture here at Gaumont, it really is a culture of collaboration and wanting to see everyone succeed.
Alex Akhavan:
That's great. And I actually wanted to get into what kind of cultural or legal differences you run into, both in the context of who you work with at Gaumont, within the company internationally. What's it like? What would you run into, again, in terms of cultural difference being based in the US, versus the members of the same company who are based in France? And then relatedly, how those cultural differences you encounter when you're just doing productions around the world, so maybe not within your own company, but with other production companies and partners, and not just the US or France, but everywhere. What have you observed?
Tim Stephen:
Sure. I have to say between us and France, when I'm talking of my counterparts, there are people on my team are talking to their counterparts. I just don't find that great of a difference. Maybe a document is formatted differently.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, they have that A4 paper, and we have the 11 by eight.
Tim Stephen:
Oh there you go. Exactly. I can never print on the A4 paper. But there's really not that big a difference, frankly. So when we're working on a deal with a platform, it is very similar in structure to what the French team is doing, I believe, from what I've seen. And the terms aren't necessarily the same, but the underlying legal principles by and large are. So your standard lit auction purchase agreement that we may enter into is pretty much the same. I believe that our French counterparts may negotiate a license deal, or co-production, or a work for hire arrangement with a platform, basically has the same moving parts here and over there, again, that I'm aware of. And so I think in that regard, we're pretty much all doing the same things. There are some differences though, and you're of course familiar with “le droit moral”, the strength of that law in France, it's different elsewhere in the world. And so there's particular focus paid to it there. And those differences do exist, and they exist for us when we work with French authors as well. And I've learned from my French colleagues about certain nuances in the law that I wouldn't have necessarily known otherwise when doing these types of deals. Having said all of that, I do have to say, when working in other parts of the world, which we do quite a bit, Latin America, elsewhere, there are a lot of differences that we come across when producing. Whether it's in Mexico, Columbia, Uruguay, Chile, elsewhere, these are all countries that have their own industries and entertainment, and their ways of doing things.
And the same is true for France, of course, but we do have to be attuned to how they work, and understand it, and not force our particular mode of working onto the locals in all of those countries, and the way they do things, because you can certainly imagine how that might be received. And so there's a real sensitivity that has to go on for both on our legal side, but also on the production side, when dealing with local production teams, all the way down to accountants and attorneys, and be respectful of how they do things. And try and find a way to get what you need from your perspective, yet still work with people in a way that doesn't really completely change what they do and how they do it, because you don't really have the time, frankly, to explain and to try and change people in the way they've perhaps done things for 20, 30 years or longer.
So it's really finding, I don't want to say middle ground, because it's never in the middle, but an accommodation on both sides. "Okay, that's how you do it. Understood. We need this, is there a way to achieve this, because we just can't live without this," and you really have to have a dialogue back and forth. And I guess the word I was struggling to look for is, "You better be flexible." If you're not flexible, you're really going to have a tough time.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, that's also very consistent with what my experience has been. I know that some of the legal issues you mentioned, the big factor we have to consider a lot when we're working, for example, the “droit moral” , which you mentioned, that is treated very differently in France, and the US for example. And for any listeners who don't quite know what it is, it's essentially moral rights, where I like to think of it as if I were to buy a painting from someone, does that give me the right to change the painting, or paint over it, or do whatever. And philosophically, in the US, we’re of the mind of, "Well you bought it, it's yours, you can do what you want." Whereas in France, the culture is more "No, no, this is beautiful artwork that the person, despite the fact that they sold it to you, still has certain rights that stop you from tarnishing or changing it."
And when that applies to the film and television context, it can get quite complicated. So I totally hear you on approaches in that respect. And similarly, as far as cultural differences, that happens a lot too when we work on productions in LATAM, Mexico, around the world, those countries have certain ways of doing things. Certain not just legal issues, but like you said, similar cultural differences. This is just how they've done it, they have long relationships. So it is that fine line, often, of protecting the client, not only knowing the policies but knowing why you have the policies, and trying to protect them, while also being realistic that the entertainment industry in other places is, to some extent, just functions differently. There's a lot of old long relationships, and just ways of doing things. So I think flexible is definitely a great word to use.
Tim Stephen:
One thing to be aware of, if your listeners are, maybe for the first time, have a client working in a territory that they're not familiar with, which is something I came across, and still come across, which is in some of these territories, their production, understandably, has grown up and developed around supplying programs for their market, for their local networks.
Alex Akhavan:
Mm-hmm.
Tim Stephen:
And their concerns are built around that. Their awareness of issues, and issues spotting, is built around what happens in their market.
Alex Akhavan:
Mm-hmm.
Tim Stephen:
And the chance of a, let's say a television series made in a, let's say a smaller Latin American country, being distributed worldwide, is not very great necessarily, and it may stay local. But if you go to produce a show in that market, that is intended for a platform whose business model, by definition, is going to be worldwide distribution, and you can think of all the platforms that have that, well all of a sudden producing in that market is very different in many ways. And the issues that you're concerned about are not necessarily the issues of the people that are producing your show, because they don't necessarily think about things on a worldwide basis.
They don't wonder, "Well what happens if the show is distributed and seen in every European territory, or in Asia, or in the US?" Because that just hasn't been their concern previously. And so for companies like ours, our awareness is always one of, "What happens if this show is seen virtually everywhere in the world?" And so you have to think a lot more carefully about a lot of different issues, a lot of them having to do with script clearance, and other issues, from a worldwide perspective instead of just a local perspective.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, absolutely. And to kind of discuss more about that, I mean clearance is a perfect example where laws from different countries vary, and maybe whereas just a few years ago, when content was being produced locally, and it was a little more likely that when you made something for a certain country, your audience was just that country. But now, like you said, the audience is increasingly becoming the whole world. So you have to start factoring in, and not only have to make sure that I'm complying with clearance in the US, and in these countries where my target audience is, but also this is going to be exhibited everywhere.
And so it takes awareness, at least, of how things vary from country to country. Even a place that you wouldn't think was going to be relevant when you went into production, you never know, might be your biggest audience, could be in a whole country you didn't realize the show would be so popular. And so that's a huge thing that I imagine has changed recently.
Tim Stephen:
Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of common sense applies, and some things aren't common sense that you just have to learn by doing. But by way of example, if just on the most basic level, if you're shooting a show in a country, and the show's actually taking place in that country, not just being shot in that country, well you're going to clear typically like you would for any territory, and that makes sense. So you're going to clear your names, street addresses, etc, etc... You're going to do the same thing as if you were shooting it here in the US, but you're just doing it for another country.
But where it gets a little bit more difficult, and a little bit more dicey, is you have to think through issues of defamation, and what country are you shooting in, or where is the show supposed to be taking place. And think through all those issues and those laws more carefully, because New York Times V Sullivan is not necessarily the law of their country, although it's ours, at least for now.
But you have to have that awareness. And then you also, to some degree, have to think about people who forum shop. And when you have a show that's distributed worldwide, will they have the opportunity to file a case in a form that has a more friendly law for the claim that they're going to be making? And you can certainly drive yourself crazy thinking about all of these things, but it's good to spend at least a cursory amount of time to some of that.
What show are you making? What's it about? And have some level of risk analysis so that you're not completely surprised if something comes up, and you have done the work early on with the creatives on the show to try and say, "Well, let's try and move this in a bit of a different direction if we can, and cut some of our risk." But you do have to be aware of this, you do have to have awareness of it. You can't really stick your head in the sand, and hope that nothing will ever happen in a far away territory just because it's far away.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think defamation is a great example. It's a simple issue that most countries know about or discuss, but the nuances is very different. So for example, as you know in the US, you can't really bring a defamation claim after you're dead. The logic being, well to the extent your reputation was harmed, etc, is irrelevant now, because you're not alive to really see it. Whereas some countries don't really take that position, they allow estates to bring similar claims, saying if you're hurting the reputation even after death, there's a cause of action. And there's even some countries where defamation can even be a crime.
So there's certainly the gambit, and definitely when it comes to forum shopping, finding certain jurisdictions that are going to be more friendly to you. I mean most recently, famously, there was the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, that there was one in England, and then another one in the US. I think it was a rare one, where he won in the US, but lost in England. But in general, it's a good example of people can bring cases surrounding similar facts in different jurisdictions. So like you said, just a simple cursory knowledge so that you're aware of, "Okay, what would a claim look like if it was brought in the UK, or in another country, versus in-"
Tim Stephen:
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, people should certainly be aware of the laws of defamation in Ireland, and in the UK. And will their shows be distributed there, and what's the burden of proof, because it is different than in the US? And those are both important territories, and I would include that in someone's cursory knowledge, because I think it's informative.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, absolutely. So that gets into some of the challenges of producing outside, there are any others, definitely. I also want to talk about some of the benefits. What would encourage, despite of putting yourself up to the laws of all these other countries, what makes Gaumont USA, or really any studio, choose to film outside? I know you touched on, briefly, and maybe we'll talk more about it, as one is production incentives and tax incentives. So maybe we can talk about that, or any other pros and cons, I suppose, of filming something outside the US.
Tim Stephen:
Yeah, I think the financial ones are pretty apparent, in terms of tax incentives. And I honestly think yes, they exist, and yes, they're important, and can help you get a look that you're trying to achieve for your show, that you may not be able to do here in the US, or other places that may have a higher cost basis for shooting. But for me, honestly, that's falls into the boring category of all of shooting elsewhere. I think we're also fortunate now that we get to watch shows any night of the week, on any number of platforms, that are produced in a different language, and shot somewhere else. And the richness that we get from that, I think, is just amazing.
So the fact that I get to watch a show in Hebrew, shot in Israel, and the West Bank, and be terribly excited over the drama about a culture that I don't really know, I think that's amazing. And see places that I've never seen, I haven't been there, it's fantastic. And so for, us the ability to go work with different crews, different artists around the world, I think, makes for a much richer experience in the shows that we make. And it's not better than what we do here in the US, it's just different. And different is sometimes fantastic. It's I love Italian food, but I don't eat it every night. I like to sample different cuisines. And that's just one of the great beauties of, obviously, not only food, but of television these days, is that you get to see parts of the world that you never would've been to.
I mean, I can go home and watch a show made in Iceland, or made in Amsterdam, or pick your country, or your city that you're interested in, or one that you don't even know that you're interested in, and just happen to tune in. I think that's one of the great benefits, frankly. It's not necessarily spoken a lot about, but it can also maybe sound a little convenient to say that, but I really believe it. I think it makes for much richer experience to have crews, and artists, directors, costume people, art directors from everywhere in the world, because you can't bring all of those people here into the US. You can bring sometimes a few, but you don't get the same thing. And I think the same is true for editing, that things are just maybe done a little bit differently, and we're the better for it.
Alex Akhavan:
I agree. One thing I observed, starting a couple of years ago, is that it seems like a lot of studios were, given the new market, the globalized entertainment market, where the concept of worldwide releases, and streaming all over the world is a fairly recent thing, and what I observed is that it seemed a lot of studios were starting to focus on producing local content with the logic being, "Well if we want to spread to all these countries in the world, we need them to watch content that they'll enjoy. So we should find local stories, local crew, local performers, and they will serve the local market."
But the twist was that turns out everyone wants to watch that type of content, that you hiring the local people in these small towns all over the world, in their authentic languages, doesn't just appeal to the people of those countries. It appeals to Americans, everyone, all over the world. And that kind of became the boom. Everyone's realizing not only can I help explain it to these countries, but my own existing subscriber base wants international content. For me, I grew up going to international schools, so I was used to multiple languages, but it's a pretty rare thing to interact with. But now, everyone's favorite show comes from South Korea, or like you said, Israel, or in Spanish, and French.
These days, what people are watching could easily be a foreign language, or a foreign culture production. And I completely agree that that's a great trend that we're seeing. That's honestly the best content, is the new stories from all of these places around the world.
Tim Stephen:
I think it's a great example, and when you bring up... I don't know if you brought up South Korea, but when you think of Squid Game, what an amazing show. And if five years ago you would've told me I'd be watching Squid Game on my TV at home, a show in Korean, about that particular subject, I would've probably furrowed my brow, and said, "Really? I'm not... I don't know."
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah.
Tim Stephen:
I'm not sure. But boy, when I watched it, I couldn't stop. And it was fascinating, and insight into a culture that I didn't know a lot about, and it was fascinating. It was just made the world smaller and more interesting. Take a look at a show that we made, not the US, but our parent company made, Lupin, starring Omar Sy, and that turned into a worldwide hit for Netflix. And I don't think there was a lot of intention when that show was made for it to be much more than a show for the French market, even though it was going to be on Netflix. But in the same way that Squid Game turned into a hit, that I'm not sure anybody expected, so did Lupin, and became a worldwide hit. And so that's kind of the beauty of this world of multiple platforms, and local language productions, that get made, and turn into must see TV, not just here in the US, but in a lot of different countries around the world.
Alex Akhavan:
Absolutely. Yeah. So one of our clients produces a lot of content in Mexico, which essentially invented the telenovela genre, but now you find telenovelas, that genre, is blowing up in Turkey and Korea. My mother, all she watches, she's like, "I've watched every single South Korean soap opera I can." And this is something that's only a new part of this industry, and I think it's really exciting to watch. And I actually kind of want to talk a little more, but what else have you noticed change-wise in the entertainment landscape? Where are we today? Where have we come from? Where do you see us going?
Tim Stephen:
Wow. Well I wish I knew the answer to your last question. I won't even pretend to answer that, but I just want to speak about the concept of change for a moment. I don't really need to get too philosophical here, but since you brought it up, I have to pause there. The interesting thing about change is how much of it that they're actually is, and how fast we're seeing it. So if you were to, 10 or 15 years ago, talk about change as a concept, you would think of it as something that's incremental, something that I can follow, and watch, and feel like I have my arms around on any given day. It was gradual, and it was understandable, and you had some idea of where things would go.
Change today has changed. So change, and I know you're not supposed to use a word to define a word, but change today, as the concept itself, has changed. So when we speak of things changing today, we're talking on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis, that we see major pivots from these different companies that are worldwide platforms, are trying to establish themselves as worldwide platforms. And that's extraordinary. You will see mergers of major companies, that on one day, completely changes the business. You will see them change the way they're monetizing their content, maybe once or twice a year, until they feel that they get it right, or what their platform looks like, or how you interact with that platform. That tends to be a little bit more gradual, but you do see that. And so for a company like ours, and for me as an executive, I certainly do what I can to try and keep up with it. But I can tell you the one thing that I embrace is the fact that the only constant I know now is change. And that may seem like, "Well, how can something be a constant?" Well, change is the constant. And if you're not good with things changing rapidly in the television business, in the film business, then you're probably in the wrong business, because I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.
Alex Akhavan:
Yeah, I completely agree. And one thing I try to emphasize to so many people, because I agree with you, that our industry's seen a lot of change. We had video cassettes came out, and that was a change, because now you could have movies at your house. So how do we handle that? But the fundamental thing that I've observed is, forever, the structure of the business really relied on each project you were making. So you wanted to make a movie that would sell tickets. So the goal was, "This is what I'm making, I'm hoping it does better than the other movies." And then when TV grew, it became, "All right, I have a slot from 8:00 to 8:30. I need the show to fill that slot to get the most viewers." But now the whole business has changed, where now the streaming platforms, it's a whole other concept.
Now I need to justify $10 to $20, however much a month, forever, from my subscribers, and it's, and deliver them a catalog of content, and with the expectation that there's enough things they like, and it's indispensable to them that they'll do it. But all of a sudden the priority is a little less on each thing, because you're no longer competing for real estate in the TV category, or even in movies, which are trained. Yes, you still have the exhibitors with limited screens, but now that people are streaming so much, it's really just about do you have enough content that they're willing to pay every month to watch? And that's such a huge change from how it's operated for nearly a hundred years.
And I also agree with what you're saying about the globalization of it all. It was always domestic. And then gradually we found, "Wait, our movies are selling around the world." And then we've been in this mode of, things are still, for the longest time, were produced for American audiences, and then by extension, the world. But now, they're being produced for the whole world directly. Everything is being made to be watched by everyone, everywhere. And it's really exciting. But I completely agree with you, that it's more than just incremental change. It's almost a upheaval of the entire way of doing things.
Tim Stephen:
Yes. And then I'm going to disagree with you a little bit, when you get down to the micro. So yes, on the macro, just tidal waves of change, but on the micro of it, actors still get hired and have to go deliver a great performance. Writers do what they've always done, which is agonize over the writing of a great script, that a director is going to create something fantastic from with the actors. That still happens. That hasn't changed, thank goodness. Or at least too much.
Alex Akhavan:
Not yet.
Tim Stephen:
Not yet. I mean, you certainly still have all the computer-assisted effects, and graphics, and etc. But I think that business is so dynamic, and just don't get too wedded to your business model for too long, because you do need to be responding to these platforms and think about that constantly.
Alex Akhavan:
Absolutely.
Tim Stephen:
Or else you get left behind.
Alex Akhavan:
Absolutely. Yeah, no, I think it's really exciting. But before we wrap, I wanted to get your thoughts about what you enjoy about the work you do. What keeps you going in everyday? What motivates you, and what are you most excited about?
Tim Stephen:
I'm always excited by the content, right? First and foremost, by being a part of helping make something that people find interesting. And I'm not on the creative side, I'm on the business side, but I have a role to play that helps this content get made. And that's great. I love that. And I frankly love being at a company where I actually like everything that we've made, which is, I think, kind of ridiculous to say, but I do. I can't think back and look at anything that we've made that I'm not exceptionally proud of. And I'm not sure everybody can say that, but I can say that. It is. I'm lucky, frankly, and I know it.
But in terms of what keeps me interested, and exciting, and all of that, Alex, it really is the people. And that's important to me. It's about helping to create good teams, having a culture where people like coming into work, where they collaborate. They don't work against each other, they work with each other. My best days are when I walk down the hall, and I see people in each other's offices, and it's not because they're necessarily socializing, which is fine, but it's because they're helping each other. And they will answer questions routinely for each other, that sometimes they'll come to me, but I'm not always available. And there's a lot of smart people that, collectively, they can pretty much always get to the right answer. And so it's really building teams of people, and helping them feel good about collaborating with each other.
And that's deliberate, frankly, that's not the culture at every company, but it is the culture here. And it's one that if I have influence over, it's influencing in that direction of collaboration. It's incredibly fulfilling for me to see people progress in their careers, and to enjoy coming to work each day with each other. Because there's a lot of different things that we could all be doing in life, and we spend more time with the people at work, for better or for worse, than we do with family members often. And the fact that there's a place that you enjoy going to work is such a gift.
And if we can create that for one another, that, for me, is probably the best thing about my job is to having some impact on that. And of course, you create a company that you try to make it profitable, and successful in that respect. But I firmly believe, after having done this for a long time, that the best path towards profitability and efficiency is by having people who come to work each day, that like doing what they do, and the people that they do it with. You get more out of people, they're more conscientious, they're more interested, they're more interesting, and that makes for a better company. It makes for a better product. And ultimately, I think, a more profitable company.
Alex Akhavan:
That's so great. I completely agree. I'm also very lucky enough to love my colleagues, and to really enjoy the work we do. I mean, we're in the business and legal role, it's not always dazzling, and it can be a lot of tedious work, but at the same time, I think we get a much more fulfilling feeling than a lot of other lawyers do, because of what we're working on. And it's nice to, sometimes I stay up late, I'm working on a contract for a show, and on my way home I see a commercial for that show. And I may even go back and I watch the show, and it's so exciting to play a role in making this art, especially at this time.
I completely agree though, that it's really about the people you work with, and all the things you're learning together. I low-key love nerding out about entertainment law with my colleagues, getting into really abstract legal issues and diving in. I think it's all really exciting. And yeah, we're lucky enough to be not only in this exciting industry, but it's such an exciting time. But anyway, Tim, thank you so, so much for joining. It was such a pleasure speaking with you. I'm really glad we're doing so much work together, and hope to keep doing so. Anything else you want to share before we wrap up?
Tim Stephen:
No, I think it's been a great conversation. You've been a great host, and thank you.
Alex Akhavan:
Thank you, Tim. And please say hi to everyone on your team.
Tim Stephen:
Will do. Be well.
Alex Akhavan:
All right. Looking forward to more shows coming out of Gaumont very soon.
Speaker 1:
For more information, visit the Sheppard Mullin French Desk at sheppardfrenchdesk.com. This podcast is recorded monthly and is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music. This podcast is recorded monthly, and available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Stitcher, and Amazon Music, as well as on our website, sheppardfrenchdesk.com. We want to help you, and welcome your feedback and suggestions of topics.
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